How do I build a rod?

Discussion in 'Rod Building' started by DementedFish, Aug 9, 2004.

  1. Finadict

    Finadict Well-Known Member

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    D.F., from the list you posted earlier, it sounds like a corktape deckhand model, and that list is a good start. Just a few smallitems to add. Although minor, kinda tough to build a rod without them.


    sharp, single edge razor blades, or x-acto knife


    silicone free non pourous plastic mixing sticks, cups and fine finish brushes. (sometimes comes with the finish, depending on the brand and kit)


    aluminum foil to pour the finish onto after mixing, to extend the working potlife.


    disposable lighter to singe thread fuzzies, flame finish and install tip top


    measuring tape


    paper towels and q-tips


    denatured alcohol or acetone, to degrease blank before finish and cleanup mistakes


    white china marker, or scribe to mark wrap locations....etc


    dividers (like a circle compass with 2 sharp points) for wrap layout


    easy release masking tape for guide placement testing and holding guides in place to wrap


    small file, benchtop belt sander, grinder or dremel tool for dressing guide feet


    scissors for cutting thread, corktape, shrink tube


    nail clippers with a smooth handle for clipping thread and burnishing thread gaps (using smooth handle)


    heat gun for shrink tube on cork tape ends and reel pad. a small propane torch can be used for this,but not reccomended.


    epoxy to install butt cap


    Obviously, most of this stuff is redily available around the house,but needs to be there at the work area before you start. When dealing with epoxy, time is critical. If you have live epoxy and need a Q-tip...and have to hunt one down...by time you find one its isualy too late.


    Ok dude....(or anyone else who wants to jump in and try their hand at rod buildin) when you have everything ready, give me the word..and lets get this forum hoppin![​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Soggyshoe

    Soggyshoe Well-Known Member

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    Thats awesome to have a skill like you do Fin! I am just waiting for the day I can have you build some rod's for me! "I'm in Ugly Stick land and I can't get out!"[​IMG]...Hey Dfish! Good luck when you finally go for it! [​IMG]
     
  3. Bearfish

    Bearfish Well-Known Member

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    Hey Scott... actually have all that stuff....sorta....I just need the keys to the shop man...LOL.



    Any progress onthe bent butt thing we were talkin about??? Plans
    or blue prints?? Gotta call my sister here soon and wanted to show her
    if she asks me. Email is fine to if its easier. Lemme know when and I
    will forward it to the dudes. AIGHT G? AIGHT!...

    </font></span>
     
  4. Finadict

    Finadict Well-Known Member

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    workin on it bear.....got some new ideas in my head...gotta get em on the drawing board.....i need to get my autocad program loaded into a computer that can handle it....or dedicated to just that
     
  5. Bearfish

    Bearfish Well-Known Member

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    Sweet.... I remember now
    you said something about that auto cad thang before. Right on...Ill let
    her know and see what she can do for you.</font>
     
  6. Joey805

    Administrator

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    LMAO!!!!
     
  7. Bearfish

    Bearfish Well-Known Member

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    :banger: :moon: :nana: [​IMG]
     
  8. Pedro_ob

    Pedro_ob Well-Known Member

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    For me it's not about saving money. It's about having the best quality components placed exactly where they should be on the rod and most of all ... doing it myself.


    Having a work of art of outstanding quality thatI made myself.


    Ok, I'm still working on the 'art' part but I'm getting better.


    Practice practice practice.
     
  9. J Heidrick

    J Heidrick Member

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    Hello Scott,


    In your 8/10/04 12:12am post, you mentioned a lighter for a "Flame Finish". Well, I have finally had the time to get back to my rod building...(thanks again for the pics on starting a wrap, they will come in handy because it's been a long time since I even touched my project, I will refer back to them often..)DEMENTED FISH, Check out the posting "STARTING MY WRAP" it will show you everything that you need to do, IN FULL COLOR!


    Anyways, I am about ready to apply my flexcoat and saw the mention of the flame finish...It sounds like applying flame to the finished and flexcoated wraps...Is it recommended, required, easy to do, or easy to screw up...If you get a chance to let me know, I would appreciate it. I promise to finish the rod soon and post some pics! Thanks again Scott...


    PS Dumb Ass Me, I bought 2 more blanks to build and I haven't finished my first one...DEMENTED FISH, I already have about $400 Bucks tied up in components and not one rod finished....Don't undertake the project unless you can devote the time to it...In other words, don't remodel your house and think you can whip out a rod or two at the same time....Good luck!
     
  10. Finadict

    Finadict Well-Known Member

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    Hi J.H. I do reccomend flaming the finish. The key to a good finish is speed. Most polymer rod finishes have a true working potlife of about 10- 15 min. depending on the volume mixed. The more volume mixed, the higher the critical mass, which means more heat is created and it will cure faster. The average volume to mix for a typical 7'-8' bait/jigstick is 10cc (5cc part A, and 5cc part B). At this volume you will have about 10-15 min....maybe to 25 min. if you pour it out onto foil to dissapate the heat. The trick here is to cover the dry threadwork AS FAST AS POSSIBLE(5-8 min)with finish while it is at its lowest viscosity to allow it to saturate the thread, then go back over every thing again to fill the dry patches that form as the finish soaks in.


    This is where flaming the finish comes in. A wrapped guide has voids with air trapped in it, ie;the tunnel that is formed along the edges of the guide feet after the thread is wound over, and between the twisted fibers of the thread itself. The air escapes into the finish. Larger bubbles overcome the viscosity of the finish(within its useable potlife), and slowly rise to the surface and pop. Smaller bubbles cant overcome the the gradually increasing viscosity, and stay suspended in the finish. Quickly running a flame across the finish temporarily thins the finish and disturbs the surfaceallowing them to rise to the surface and pop. Be careful to not hold the flame in one spot too long. Although the finish wont easily ignite, it will flash-boil, causing micro bubbles to form that are impossible to fix. Although flaming temporarily liquifies the finish for a few seconds, It actually accelerates the cure, so if micro bubbles occur from overheating with the flame, the accelerated cure time wont allow them to release...kind of a "catch 22 " scenario. I suggest letting the rod slowly rotate for about 30-40 min. to give air time to release on its own...and then attack with the lighter only where needed.
     
  11. Finadict

    Finadict Well-Known Member

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    .....Oh before I forget....the flame tecnique is for polymer 2 part epoxy finishes only!!!! DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE USING ROD VARNISH OR ROD LAQUER!!!!!!! I just had a vision of a GIANT MUSHROOM CLOUD, and thought id better mention it.....just in case! Most builders dont use this stuff anymore, but a few still do, and it is VERY FLAMABLE and the fumes are HIGLY EXPLOSIVE!!!:uhoh:


    Good Luck!
     
  12. bajadave

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    Scott! your are the man!!! I'm enjoying every rod that you have made for me. I always get raves for their looks.
     
  13. J Heidrick

    J Heidrick Member

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    Again, thank you for your attention to detail in your reply. When are you going to publish your own rod building book? All you would have to do is copy all your postings to this board and paste them in a word doc and send it off to the publisher!


    A couple more questions Maestro....I have a home built rod dryer (uncle's hand me down...funny his rods kind of look like crap...maybe saving a few bucks on equipment isn't worth it...but, maybe itwas just his technique, after all he didn't have access to you on this message board)...so this dryer spins at 33 RPM (maybe an old record player motor?), is this too fast? And when applying finish to the area around the windingcheck, will it be easy to makea smooth transition with the blunt end of the rubber to the blank? Will that take a series of applications? The things that I have read on wrap finishing is about 3 coats...didn't know if the check would take more...And finally brushes...I have some inexpensive disposable plastic bristled brushes...are the brushes critical, and should I use a specific type?


    THanks again Scott for all your help!
     
  14. Finadict

    Finadict Well-Known Member

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    J.H., the rod dryer you describe IS a littlle fast, but sounds perfect for APPLYING the finish. Gravity causes drips when the finish is liquid, or sags when it is thicker. When a rod is slowly turned the drips and sagscreep around the wraps, rather than fall off.As the finish slowly cures, it seeks it's own level. If the rpm is too fast, centrifugal force counteracts the pull of gravity. and the finish won't seek its own level. This of course, is all revalent to the viscosity of the finish at the time the rotationprocess is started.The thicker the finish, the slower the rpm has to be. So I think the slowest rpmis the best way to go...about 6 would be bestall around. 6 rpm is just barely fast enough tokeep a drip from formingwhen the finish is thin, and slow enough when its thicker.I have 12 dryers that I use every day, that run at 18 rpm, and that is a little fast. But i'm pretty fast at applying finish, so the finish is very liquid when I put the rods in the dryers.The only reason I opted for the 18's vs. the 6 rpm, is the faster 18,s allow me to inspect the rods a little easier for bubbles, bugs, etc. At 6rpm, it could take a long time to inspect 12 rods several times throughout the day! But I am building a 2 speed, 24 rod machine ....6 and 18rpms that switches from inspection mode (18) to cure mode(6), because the slower rpm allows the finish to level out better, without the tedious finish hand leveling and 'shaping'I do now. I would recommend finding a slower gearmotor and adapt it somehow to the rig you have.


    I usualy apply a first coat, let cure overnight, trim any thread stickups or critters off with a razor blade, and do any writing needed, followed with a second coat. I'll do a third coat the next dayonly if needed.


    As for the winding check, you can get a smooth transition by building up the buttwrap with several thick coats of finish. Again , slower cure rpm's are crucial if you try this....too fast, the finish will build on one side of the rod....too slow, the thick coat will drip off. The best way would be, although time consuming, is to wrap the area for your butt wrap with 2 layers of thread and a coat of finish. wrap 2 more layers and finish. Repeat until its flush with the step on the winding check. Then do the buttwrap design you want over it.


    The brushes are a hotly debated subject among many rodbuilders! Many insist that you have to have expensive artist type brushes to acheive the best finish, while others insist brushes ruin finishes and prefer using those small stainless steel dentists spatulas. It is true that a brush can introduce tiny milky air bubbles, but that happens when the finish gets as thick a bubblegum! If it gets thick enough ,to where you cant use a brush, you should stop and mix another batch of finish anyway. Funny...I use the yellow 1/4'' and purple1/8'' cheapo disposable ones from FlexCoat, and get better finishes on my production rods than most experienced custom rodbuilders do on their custom rods. Again, I think speed is the key here. I use the small round1/8'' brush to get into the tight spots first. Then with a pair of pliars I smash the collar of the 1\8" brush to flatten and fan out the bristles and use this to quickly cover broad areas.


    I just about any cheap disposable nylon bristle brush would work...but should be washed with dish soap and warm water to remove any silicone used in their manufacture. not nessesary with the Flex coat brushes.
     
  15. J Heidrick

    J Heidrick Member

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    Thanks again Scott, I have those same brushes you describe and your explanation on the techniques in applying the finish is very detailed, and vivid. I can now form a mental picture of what should occur.....IF, I should screw up on the finish coat and need to remove the finish, I am guessing that the wrap work would not be salvageable. Can the finish be scraped off with a blade and the guide re-wrapped easily enough?
     
  16. Sinker

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    Silicone [​IMG][​IMG]Flexcoat


    Some things just DON"T go together.


    Keep your rod building tools and components away from your tackle (especially plastic lures), wash your hands before handling your threads, blanks and guides as Silicone is very easily transfered from your hands and will wreak havoc on your finish, if it is on the threads forget about getting any saturation which I personally believe to be crucial and one of the things I like about Scott's rods and also why I feel a thinner mix or thin enough to use a brush is important .


    Time to stop just repairing and start making entire rods - Scott I will see you Saturday for answers to my questions.
     
  17. Finadict

    Finadict Well-Known Member

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    Very true Tim!! I have to treat silicone like a like a virus or germ....constantly washing my hands, always telling people DONT TOUCH ANYTHING if youve been the tackle shop.....etc .Anything new and plastic usually has a film of silicone on it. It is commonly used as a casting mold release agent. So if you handle fishing line, plastic lures, reels, even new plastic Plano boxes, wash your hands before handlin an unfinished rod, the tools needed for the rod....even the work area can possibly be contaminated. My biggest finish problems usually can be traced to someone from the tackle shop next door with their hands in the bins of swimbaits(that are dripping with silicone), coming over to my shop and leaving a greasy smudge on one of my workbenches, tools or rod blanks, I inadvertently touch it....everything I handle afterward gets contaminated..........etc. What a NIGHTMARE!! im turning into a sili-phobic!!! lol


    J.H., yes the finish, wrap, and guide can be carefully scraped off with a razor blade and re-done if nesessary.


    [​IMG]
     
  18. Finadict

    Finadict Well-Known Member

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    Hey, what happened to D.F.? I think we hijacked his post.
     
  19. Joey805

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    I think we scared him off..lol
     
  20. crawford23

    crawford23 Well-Known Member

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    This has got to be a record.....I can't remember a post going this far without blatanly getting off topic.
     

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