Acid or regular?

Discussion in 'Rod Building' started by Batman, December 1, 2003.

  1. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

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    I am going to be building a 15lb casting rod on a seeker CSW857 and I can't decide wether to acid wrap the rod or to do it the regular way. I asked some people on the other boards and they said I should acid wrap it so it wouldn't twist as much, which I hate. Than I asked Scott and he said if I acid wrapped it wouldn't cast as good which is realy important to me. I acid wraped a 6.5' shakespear rod over the weekend and it cast as well if not better than before. I don't know whose advice to take so I will ask you guys. Did you loose casting distance on a acid wrapped rod? What are the advantages of each wrapping style?


    Thanks


    Batman
     
  2. Sinker

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    Acid wrapping will get you alot of weird looks and people will ask what happened to your rod.


    I would go conventional - but then again I HATE acid wrap rods and Avet Reels so what do I know heheehe...
     
  3. adr91360

    adr91360 Well-Known Member

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    Depends how are you gonna do the Acid wrap. If do the spiral all the way through the guides it shouldn't effect casting that much, if you do the last 3 guides then that will effect casting lot more.
     
  4. pEsCaDoR

    pEsCaDoR Well-Known Member

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    i replied to your post on tacklethief, but ill re-post here:


    i dont want to step on scott's toes or anything since obviously he has a great reputation as a builder, but the disadvantages of acid wrapping a rod are slim to none IMO. a lot of rodbuilders that have not tried it yet or didnt use the right method for the particular rod will say that acid wrapping a rod will decrease casting distance. i am on the other side of the wagon saying that if you lose casting distance on an acid wrapped rod (if done correctly) it will only be a matter of feet... if that. the 857 is 8.5ft long right?

    for that particular rod, i would use the O'quinn method for the spiralling. is the reel that you will be using a levelwind or not? i am assuming it is non-LW. in that case the O'quinn method excells IMO. here is what i would do step by step:
    =have someone hold the butt of the rod while you pull the tip down.
    =find where the rod actually starts to bend.
    =about an inch or two towards the butt from that point is where i would situate the first 180* guide.
    =from there, in a four guide transition, i would mount guides at 135*, 90*, and 45* in order towards the butt, spanning over about 16" (maybe longer if it looks better and doesnt let the line touch anything) from the 180 to the 45. i would have this spiralling to the left of the blank so that while guiding the line with your thumb you dont have to reach over just to pull the line across the spool.
    =tape these in place and mount your reel onto the rod.
    =run the line through the guides and pull the tip down to see if the line touches the blank at all. then look at your line to see if the guide placement is of the straightest line transition possible without touching the blank.
    =make your necessary adjustments.
    =add the rest of the guides up to the tip and space them out as needed according to the bend in the rod and what looks good.

    as for the pro's and con's of each, lets just say that i will NEVER build another casting rod for myself in the traditional straight line layout. but this is just MY opinion. im converted.
     
  5. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks pescador I think you are right about "a lot of rodbuilders that have not tried it yet or didn't use the right method for the particular rod will say that acid wrapping a rod will decrease casting distance."


    Thanks for the help,


    Batman
     
  6. pEsCaDoR

    pEsCaDoR Well-Known Member

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    just my opinion, but you should NEVER spiral all the guides all the way to the tip. the transition should only be up to the start of the bend in the rod. otherwise, when fighting a fish you will be putting lateral force on the guides and wraps which can cause your rod to break because of the pressure to twist the blank, or it can damage the guides or wraps. especially if the guides are high profiled. by positioning the guides on the "backbone" or straight part of the rod, the line just idly sits there putting almost no tension on the spiral guides.


    here's a pic of a quantum PT tour edition that i rewrapped recently. i can attest to"before and after" performance that i did not lose casting distance, and the fish-fighting ability of the rod improved noticeably.


    [​IMG]


    thereare a lot of misconceptions about how a properly built acid wrap should look. i hope i cleared upsome of them. i will admit that i was grossed out by the thought of it at first. i thought it looked stupid and didnt make sense. but after hearing RAVE reviews about it i had to try it out. and ive challenged anyone that i fish with if they like baitcasting gear to try out my rod. and ive got nothing but good feedback. all this coupled with properly spaced guides and clean wrapping job, and i can say that this rod actually looks COOL now.
     
  7. Joey805

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    That pic didn't show up Pescador. [​IMG]
     
  8. Gordo Grande

    Gordo Grande Well-Known Member

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    For the dumb among us...


    What exactly is an acid wrap?
     
  9. Carnivore

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    Not sure WHY they call it acid but it is a way of wrapping the guides on the rod that cause it to start at the top and wind around the rod so at the end of the rod it is at the bottom like a spinning rod. Pescador had a picture up at one time. They look wild but like allot of things you either love them or hate them.
     
  10. bajadave

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    weird man, weird,odd
     
  11. pEsCaDoR

    pEsCaDoR Well-Known Member

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    i moved the pic over to a different spot on the pic host. but here's an avatar i use for some of the other boards im a member of. these are just a couple of the spiral wraps ive done. the one on the right shows a bendo from an approx 50lb batray.


    [​IMG]


    and i dont know if its just me, but lately ive noticed that when im using a spiral wrapped rod, i get the fish in A LOT quicker than usual.
     
  12. pEsCaDoR

    pEsCaDoR Well-Known Member

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    oh almost forgot... i think they call it acid wrap because the guy that thought of it must have been on acid!
     
  13. Joey805

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    Wow, thats crazy looking! The guy must have definetly been on acid when he wrapped that rod.
     
  14. bajadave

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    I got [​IMG]just looking at the rod.....................cool, I quess.
     
  15. bajadave

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    So how do you set up the guides to the spline? maybe you don't? HMMMMMM?
     
  16. pEsCaDoR

    pEsCaDoR Well-Known Member

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    the upside down guides are set up on the rod with the spline just like you would a spinning rod. the spline placement is still very important, but mostly for the cast. most of the stability is now coming from the line actually pulling the rod towards it, instead of trying to push its way around.


    hopefully i can make it to goleta on the 11th. i would love to let you try some of my rods out till you fight a fish on it, just to see the look of amazement in how they feel. if you can just get over the looks, you'd be sold... i can almost promise.


    i cant speak for anyone else's custom rods buti can say this about mine:
    <UL>
    <LI>minimal (if any) loss in casting distance(as long as rod is used for intended purpose, ie. youre not going to make a 100yd cast with a bass rod).</LI>
    <LI>superbfish fighting stability.</LI>
    <LI>decreased level of fatigue after a long battle.</LI>
    <LI>unaffected casting accuracy.</LI>
    <LI>guide placement customized to the type of fishing and equipment intended for use with the rod.</LI>
    <LI>overall pleasureful fishing experience (not to mention the attention you'll get if you start whacking some fish).</LI>[/list]
     
  17. bajadave

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    Good post and well said. I'll see you when we go albie fishing in S.D. in 2004........... fire, fire.
     
  18. Carnivore

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    I have used the acid wrap before (didn't know the name then) and just from my observations I was unimpressed. Can't say it was bad but didn't see any advantage. I heard that the way the guide placement is puts unwanted twist in the pole itself (like an Indian burn) it doesn't twist the rod in your hands but the pull on the guides is not straight down or straight up but to the side. Now I can't cast bait casters so I can't say anything about decreased distance. I am my own worst reason for that. All in all it is allot of head ach to go through on the off change it will ware your rod out faster.
     
  19. pEsCaDoR

    pEsCaDoR Well-Known Member

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    carni,


    if the spiralling guides are put in the correct place, there will be NO TWISTING of the rod like an "indian burn" as you say. the spiralling guides are all SUPPOSED to be placed on the "backbone" of the rod. this is the area that stays pretty much rigid while the rest of the rod is under a load. there is almostzero downward force of the line causing the guide to want to twist. only outward force towards the tip where the line is going out. the amount of stress put on the spiralled guides is the LEAST amount on the whole rod... as long as they are placed in the correct part of the blank.


    as a matter of fact (and some might not agree, so ask a physics major or engineer if youknow one), if the guides on a convetionally wrapped casting rod are not centered EXACTLY with the spline of the blank, THAT will cause the "indian burn" twising of the rod.


    like i stated before, some rodbuilders might not have figured this out yet. and when they build one for the first time, they might get the impression that the acid wrap is nothing good for the blank, thus spreading the misconception that it will twist the blank. when in all actuallity, it was the rodbuilder that screwed it up in the first place.


    the avatar pic i posted shows a rod on the right "getting bent".while i was fighting this ~50lb batray i was holding the rod with an OPEN HAND, not gripping it. and no matter what angle i put the rod at while fighting the fish, it always stayed perfectly in line with the line out.
     
  20. pEsCaDoR

    pEsCaDoR Well-Known Member

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    here's a diagram of what im talking about


    [​IMG]
     

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